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Post by Tamonten on Sat 7 Sep 2019 - 2:18

Hello there!
People from GLP should remember me.
I was asked to come here to be available for discussion. So, I'm here.  Cool

Anyway, I'll remind who I am.
Russian. More precisely, "Evil Russian Imperialist". Both sarcastically and somewhat seriously. Twisted Evil
I live a dozen kilometers from Moscow, near space-oriented science-city Korolyov. As a fun fact - 4 kilometers from one of "Amur" missile defense bases.
Graduated from science-oriented high-school (mostly studied mathematics). Started to study programming, but changed direction completely ultimately getting Bachelor degree on Oriental history, majoring in Japanese one according with the language.
At the moment I'm in the process of studying for Master's degree on history. More precisely - "History of religious and ethical teachings".

So, I don't have as much time and sheer enthusiasm as before, but I can comment on some events and provide a viewpoint from Russia on demand. It's just that you'll have to nudge me a bit. Arrow


Last edited by Tamonten on Mon 9 Sep 2019 - 12:40; edited 1 time in total
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Post by KneelB4Zod! on Sat 7 Sep 2019 - 2:58

What do you know about allegedly disastrous nuclear catastrophe in Severodvinsk?


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"I assure you, ladies and gentlemen that, very soon history will show that we and our allies have fought a war on behalf of the whole world against terrorism supported by governments that will be held accountable by its own people..."
Quoting Dostoyevsky:
"Rest assured, hell is big enough for all. It doesn't deserve this fierce competition over who will be the worst." - Dr. Bashar Jaafari, UNSC session, 22nd of February, 2018
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Post by Tamonten on Sat 7 Sep 2019 - 3:10

KneelB4Zod! wrote:What do you know about allegedly disastrous nuclear catastrophe in Severodvinsk?


Too much of a noise around something of little actual importance.
Certainly, if some reactor (of any workable type) exploded it would have been impossible to hide in terms of contamination. It would not have been just as short spike of radiation. Especially if it were Burevestnik, since there's no way to prevent it from spreading.
Most probably, official version is pretty much accurate. It's just that to provide noticeable spike of radiation just a nuclear battery is not enough. Though, if it was mobile nuclear reactor to power up, let's say, Peresvet laser complex...

Either way, radio-phobia is overrated. Whatever has happened there, even in the worst case it'll affect only the people who were there, i.e. authorized personal which knew what they were doing. Any harm to the environment or civilians is neglectable.
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Post by KneelB4Zod! on Sat 7 Sep 2019 - 3:19

Tamonten wrote:
KneelB4Zod! wrote:What do you know about allegedly disastrous nuclear catastrophe in Severodvinsk?


Too much of a noise around something of little actual importance.
Certainly, if some reactor (of any workable type) exploded it would have been impossible to hide in terms of contamination. It would not have been just as short spike of radiation. Especially if it were Burevestnik, since there's no way to prevent it from spreading.
Most probably, official version is pretty much accurate. It's just that to provide noticeable spike of radiation just a nuclear battery is not enough. Though, if it was mobile nuclear reactor to power up, let's say, Peresvet laser complex...

Either way, radio-phobia is overrated. Whatever has happened there, even in the worst case it'll affect only the people who were there, i.e. authorized personal which knew what they were doing. Any harm to the environment or civilians is neglectable.
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"This is not a new world, it is simply an extension of what began in the old one. It has patterned itself after every dictator who has ever planted the ripping imprint of a boot on the pages of history since the beginning of time. It has refinements, technological advances, and a more sophisticated approach to the destruction of human freedom. But like every one of the super-states that preceded it, it has one iron rule: logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." - "The Obsolete Man" - The Twilight Zone, 1961

"I assure you, ladies and gentlemen that, very soon history will show that we and our allies have fought a war on behalf of the whole world against terrorism supported by governments that will be held accountable by its own people..."
Quoting Dostoyevsky:
"Rest assured, hell is big enough for all. It doesn't deserve this fierce competition over who will be the worst." - Dr. Bashar Jaafari, UNSC session, 22nd of February, 2018
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Post by Böhse Tante on Sat 7 Sep 2019 - 4:13

YYYEEEAAAHHH!!!

cheers Ask Tamonten 3796784211 Ask Tamonten 141993559

Ask Tamonten 4047824857


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Post by shachalnur on Sat 7 Sep 2019 - 7:16

.

Hi there,remember you from glp.

If you don't mind,since you study history of religious and ethical teachings;

What do you know,or what is beng taught in russia about a movement called the Sabbateans,later named Frankists.

Followers of Shabtai Zvi and Jacob Frank (lithuanian)

And what do you know about the history and current influence of Chabad melubavich in Russia.

is Putin being influenced or obstructed by these snakes,and how?

thanks.

.

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Post by Tamonten on Sat 7 Sep 2019 - 10:57

Böhse Tante wrote:YYYEEEAAAHHH!!!

cheers  Ask Tamonten 3796784211  Ask Tamonten 141993559

Ask Tamonten 4047824857

Ask Tamonten 141993559
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Post by Tamonten on Sat 7 Sep 2019 - 11:20

shachalnur wrote:.

Hi there,remember you from glp.

If you don't mind,since you study history of religious and ethical teachings;

What do you know,or what is beng taught in russia about a movement called the Sabbateans,later named Frankists.

Followers of Shabtai Zvi and Jacob Frank (lithuanian)

And what do you know about the history and current influence of Chabad melubavich in Russia.

is Putin being influenced or obstructed by these snakes,and how?

thanks.

.

I don't believe there's any significant difference in information here. It's mostly considered "dead" teaching with no significant influence on any modern "living" one.

Chabad Lubavich is considered one of "religions with roots on Russian soil" along with Orthodox Christianity, Old Ritualists, Islam and Lamaist Buddhism. It's part of formal categorization for the sake of determining which religions should have priority representation.
It mostly affects what I've mentioned while answering in the main news topic. Being one of the official Russian religions, they are in constant contacts with civil authorities and sometimes meet with Putin. But influence?..

For starters, I don't believe there's anyone who can claim they have any significant influence on him. And certainly not a relatively small and separated group of people - moreover of a declining (because their hereditary saint did not leave a successor) sect of different religion.
If you are thinking that he's influenced because he's not denying Holocaust and so on - I advise you to not expect any Russian authority to deny it. Not because they love Jews or anything - but because 18 million civilians were killed in Soviet Union in the same manner during Nazi occupation. Aside from some "village fools" here, the only ones criticizing the concept of Holocaust here are the ones who do not understand why only the Jews are counted in, while Slavs are ignored. I.e. "why are they so special?", not "it did not happen".
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Post by Slovák on Sat 7 Sep 2019 - 11:45

Tamonten wrote:Hello there!
People from GLP should remember me.
I was asked to come here to be available for discussion. So, I'm here. Cool

Remembered, hi. Some more Russian views appreciated b/c the western overdose makes me sick.

Asked by whom to be available?

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Post by Zambeezi on Sat 7 Sep 2019 - 14:14

Slovák wrote:
Tamonten wrote:Hello there!
People from GLP should remember me.
I was asked to come here to be available for discussion. So, I'm here.  Cool

Remembered, hi. Some more Russian views appreciated b/c the western overdose makes me sick.

Asked by whom to be available?
me alien

and thank you Tamonten your voice was missed.
Ask Tamonten Cheers10
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Post by Böhse Tante on Sat 7 Sep 2019 - 15:51

Zambeezi wrote:
Slovák wrote:
Tamonten wrote:Hello there!
People from GLP should remember me.
I was asked to come here to be available for discussion. So, I'm here.  Cool

Remembered, hi. Some more Russian views appreciated b/c the western overdose makes me sick.

Asked by whom to be available?
me alien

and thank you Tamonten your voice was missed.
Ask Tamonten Cheers10

Yessss! Short after I came here I asked where Tamonten is. I also missed his "Russian perspective" - and him.

On GLP I got a few good insights, especially bc history was not my "thing" in school, our teacher was absolutely boring.

Thank you Zambeezi, and thank you Tamonten for coming here.

Very Happy

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Post by shachalnur 2 on Sat 7 Sep 2019 - 18:58

Tamonten wrote:
shachalnur wrote:.

Hi there,remember you from glp.

If you don't mind,since you study history of religious and ethical teachings;

What do you know,or what is beng taught in russia about a movement called the Sabbateans,later named Frankists.

Followers of Shabtai Zvi and Jacob Frank (lithuanian)

And what do you know about the history and current influence of Chabad melubavich in Russia.

is Putin being influenced or obstructed by these snakes,and how?

thanks.

.

I don't believe there's any significant difference in information here. It's mostly considered "dead" teaching with no significant influence on any modern "living" one.

Chabad Lubavich is considered one of "religions with roots on Russian soil" along with Orthodox Christianity, Old Ritualists, Islam and Lamaist Buddhism. It's part of formal categorization for the sake of determining which religions should have priority representation.
It mostly affects what I've mentioned while answering in the main news topic. Being one of the official Russian religions, they are in constant contacts with civil authorities and sometimes meet with Putin. But influence?..

For starters, I don't believe there's anyone who can claim they have any significant influence on him. And certainly not a relatively small and separated group of people - moreover of a declining (because their hereditary saint did not leave a successor) sect of different religion.
If you are thinking that he's influenced because he's not denying Holocaust and so on - I advise you to not expect any Russian authority to deny it. Not because they love Jews or anything - but because 18 million civilians were killed in Soviet Union in the same manner during Nazi occupation. Aside from some "village fools" here, the only ones criticizing the concept of Holocaust here are the ones who do not understand why only the Jews are counted in, while Slavs are ignored. I.e. "why are they so special?", not "it did not happen".

.

Thank you for your answer.

a little background,I'm jewish,Dutch,speak fluent Hebrew,lived in israel for 7 years in the 80's,had most of my family killed in the burnt offering(Holocaust),am considered a security risk by isr govt, ,even spent 2 months in jail there for certain investigations I did and other thought crimes

Yup ,sabbateans are considered 'dead',but I can assure you they are not.

The fact that Shabtai Zvi lived in 17th century ,declaring himself messias in 1666,Jacob Frank lived much later and Frankism was popular officially untill the early 1800's.

Then it was supposed to have diappeared as they were excommunicated,,but a little research will show a continuation in germany and russia.

They never went anywhere,their 'religion' is more popular than most people think, and extremely influential in the highest level of EU and USA Elites.

Chabad is a worldwide maffia,are extremely rich,mostly diamond money, are literally everywhere and have become integral part of Israel's foreign policy and intelligence networks.

They are virtually untouchable where they operate ,commit and enable all kinds of crimes(corrupting local govt.,childabuse,human and organ trafficing).

I'm trying to get peeps attention to these two movements,because they are deeply entrenched in USA,EU and Russia and very powefull.

if you want to read a bit about the Sabbateans/Frankists from jewish sources,please try The Unz report and Henry Makow's site.

in short ,they twist a concept from the Talmud, supposedly meaning that the messias will come when all people are 'good'or when all people are corrupted and perverted.

the phrase used in Chabad circles to greet eachother is: 'what have you done today to speed up the coming of the messias?'.

Think about it.

.

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Post by Böhse Tante on Sat 7 Sep 2019 - 20:37

Interesting informations. Has this anything to do with zionism?

I don't understand it completely, until now I thought there are mainly two groups, the zionist and the antizionist jews. Here in Germany is one antizionist woman, her father was former president of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, Heinz Galinski. The nowaday leaders are all zionists, Mrs. Hecht-Galinski is not liked there.

Another thng is a group in Germany called Antideutsche, with a hardcore pro USA and Israel agenda who calls everyone Nazi and antisemitic who speaks against them. They are mainly no jews and have more and more influence on our political parties, especially the left parties. Also they infiltrate other political organisations. They are "everywhere" and sabotage discussions in forums etc.

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Post by Tamonten on Sat 7 Sep 2019 - 23:33

shachalnur 2 wrote:
Tamonten wrote:
shachalnur wrote:.

Hi there,remember you from glp.

If you don't mind,since you study history of religious and ethical teachings;

What do you know,or what is beng taught in russia about a movement called the Sabbateans,later named Frankists.

Followers of Shabtai Zvi and Jacob Frank (lithuanian)

And what do you know about the history and current influence of Chabad melubavich in Russia.

is Putin being influenced or obstructed by these snakes,and how?

thanks.

.

I don't believe there's any significant difference in information here. It's mostly considered "dead" teaching with no significant influence on any modern "living" one.

Chabad Lubavich is considered one of "religions with roots on Russian soil" along with Orthodox Christianity, Old Ritualists, Islam and Lamaist Buddhism. It's part of formal categorization for the sake of determining which religions should have priority representation.
It mostly affects what I've mentioned while answering in the main news topic. Being one of the official Russian religions, they are in constant contacts with civil authorities and sometimes meet with Putin. But influence?..

For starters, I don't believe there's anyone who can claim they have any significant influence on him. And certainly not a relatively small and separated group of people - moreover of a declining (because their hereditary saint did not leave a successor) sect of different religion.
If you are thinking that he's influenced because he's not denying Holocaust and so on - I advise you to not expect any Russian authority to deny it. Not because they love Jews or anything - but because 18 million civilians were killed in Soviet Union in the same manner during Nazi occupation. Aside from some "village fools" here, the only ones criticizing the concept of Holocaust here are the ones who do not understand why only the Jews are counted in, while Slavs are ignored. I.e. "why are they so special?", not "it did not happen".

.

Thank you for your answer.

a little background,I'm jewish,Dutch,speak fluent Hebrew,lived in israel for 7 years in the 80's,had most of my family killed in the burnt offering(Holocaust),am considered a security risk by isr govt, ,even spent 2 months in jail there for certain investigations I did and other thought crimes

Yup ,sabbateans are considered 'dead',but I can assure you they are not.

The fact that Shabtai Zvi lived in 17th century ,declaring himself messias in 1666,Jacob Frank lived much later and Frankism was popular officially untill the early 1800's.

Then it was supposed to have diappeared as they were excommunicated,,but a little research will show a continuation in germany and russia.

They never went anywhere,their 'religion' is more popular than most people think, and extremely influential in the highest level of EU and USA Elites.

Chabad is a worldwide maffia,are extremely rich,mostly diamond money, are literally everywhere and have become integral part of Israel's foreign policy and intelligence networks.

They are virtually untouchable where they operate ,commit and enable all kinds of crimes(corrupting local govt.,childabuse,human and organ trafficing).

I'm trying to get peeps attention to these two movements,because they are deeply entrenched in USA,EU and Russia and very powefull.

if you want to read a bit about the Sabbateans/Frankists from jewish sources,please try The Unz report and Henry Makow's site.

in short ,they twist a concept from the Talmud, supposedly meaning that the messias will come when all people are 'good'or when all people are corrupted and perverted.

the phrase used in Chabad circles to greet eachother is: 'what have you done today to speed up the coming of the messias?'.

Think about it.

.

I'm very skeptical on the whole "Jewish conspiracy" thing. Jews were always an easy target for persecution because of their closed community and different customs. Often turning idle talk or mannerism into some kind of supposedly vile conspiracy.
Mostly I support Satanovskiy's (Jew, btw, although not religious one) view on the matter: "Authority and power can't be hidden, the whole concept of some world government acting from the shadows is ridiculous. And if such organization exists and tries to do something, they are failing tremendously - as they should."

Mostly, I don't search for the deep meaning if something can be explained by simple idiocy. As the saying goes: "It's worse than a crime. It's a mistake."

Are there some rich Jews trying to gain some benefits using corruption? Sure. Do some of them consider themselves to be some kind of "power behind the thrones"? Most probably so. Do they have real power over everything? Not even close.
Berezovskiy and Khodorkovskiy are a good example what happens if someone with such mindset clashes with real authority. Vekselberg and Abramovich were much smarter.
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Post by KneelB4Zod! on Sun 8 Sep 2019 - 21:43

Just came on my mind, Tam - did you noticed bruhehe regarding the statue of marshall Konev in Prague? Personally I consider it as big shame for my country. Prague is rulled by liberal fuckwits, complete idiots. The last what I know is that Konev's granddaughter wants to move the statue to Moscow from Prague.

What a crap, I guess the would like to rise some Havel of LGBT memorial over there instead.

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"This is not a new world, it is simply an extension of what began in the old one. It has patterned itself after every dictator who has ever planted the ripping imprint of a boot on the pages of history since the beginning of time. It has refinements, technological advances, and a more sophisticated approach to the destruction of human freedom. But like every one of the super-states that preceded it, it has one iron rule: logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." - "The Obsolete Man" - The Twilight Zone, 1961

"I assure you, ladies and gentlemen that, very soon history will show that we and our allies have fought a war on behalf of the whole world against terrorism supported by governments that will be held accountable by its own people..."
Quoting Dostoyevsky:
"Rest assured, hell is big enough for all. It doesn't deserve this fierce competition over who will be the worst." - Dr. Bashar Jaafari, UNSC session, 22nd of February, 2018
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Post by Tamonten on Sun 8 Sep 2019 - 22:40

KneelB4Zod! wrote:Just came on my mind, Tam - did you noticed bruhehe regarding the statue of marshall Konev in Prague? Personally I consider it as big shame for my country. Prague is rulled by liberal fuckwits, complete idiots. The last what I know is that Konev's granddaughter wants to move the statue to Moscow from Prague.

What a crap, I guess the would like to rise some Havel of LGBT memorial over there instead.

Ask Tamonten 63862118

After everything Poland done to Soviet monuments in last few years it just does not have a big impact anymore though. Just another case of stupidity and historical shortsightedness. We've generally ceased to be shocked. On the contrary, if something sane happens we are surprised.
For example, Gasparyan - one of the few experts I'm still regularly listening to - predicted Bulgary's actions with high precision. Now he's predicting that by the 100th anniversary of the Victory, the narrative will be that "Hitler was forced by the Soviets to exterminate Jews, because they were used as a tool to destroy Europe". Not that it does not happen already, I've seen such argumentation in the net, but Gasparyan is saying that it'll move from marginal to mainstream by then.

Well, Shoigu proposed (and the discussion is underway) to punish those who destroy or desecrate Russian memorials beyond the border.
https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/2019621339-Mll2O.html
https://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201998928-UysZm.html
It may be initially of little consequence, but at least there won't be just public activists and tv- and radio-hosts making a fuss about it.
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Post by blue wizard from the east on Mon 9 Sep 2019 - 0:06

You say, you have studied Mathematics and Oriental history in Russia. Have you ever heard of Anatoly Fomenko? If, what is your opinion about him?

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Post by Tamonten on Mon 9 Sep 2019 - 0:14

blue wizard from the east wrote:You say, you have studied Mathematics and Oriental history in Russia. Have you ever heard of Anatoly Fomenko? If, what is your opinion about him?

In one word - "freak".
His theories are total nonsense, based on self-contradicting and pseudo-historical claims.
It's not even worth debating with - and was largely ignored by scientific society because of that. Was quite popular among not-so-educated people back in 90s, so some serious historians were eventually forced to take a look on it and disprove his allegations.

Being good specialist in some field does not automatically make you one in every other. Much like Sakharov was a brilliant physicist, but a total disaster of public figure.
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Post by Tamonten on Mon 9 Sep 2019 - 1:51

Thought of some thing. Some time ago I participated in a discussion club with some futuristic and so on ambitions. At some point I've written an article named "Digital Meritocracy" on how I see just state to work. It's a crazy mixup of "left" and "right" ideas and may seem utopical to some and antiutopical to others.
I can translate it to English if you are interested.

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Post by Böhse Tante on Mon 9 Sep 2019 - 2:57

"... if something sane happens we are surprised."

In Germany, if I read something sane I'm surprised too. Still waiting for something sane to happen.

The Anti-Russians are still in full swing. I regret I've not learned Russian, I would want to seek for asylum there.

Rolling Eyes

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Post by blue wizard from the east on Mon 9 Sep 2019 - 6:07

Tamonten wrote:
blue wizard from the east wrote:You say, you have studied Mathematics and Oriental history in Russia. Have you ever heard of Anatoly Fomenko? If, what is your opinion about him?

In one word - "freak".
His theories are total nonsense, based on self-contradicting and pseudo-historical claims.
It's not even worth debating with - and was largely ignored by scientific society because of that. Was quite popular among not-so-educated people back in 90s, so some serious historians were eventually forced to take a look on it and disprove his allegations.

Being good specialist in some field does not automatically make you one in every other. Much like Sakharov was a brilliant physicist, but a total disaster of public figure.

lol So you really have heard about him.

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Post by Slovák on Mon 9 Sep 2019 - 11:35

Self-nominated candidates secure majority of seats in Moscow parliament:
https://tass.com/politics/1077218

Do we witness a new trend there, self-promoting by means of the social networks begins to work ... for better or worse?


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Post by Tamonten on Mon 9 Sep 2019 - 12:32

Slovák wrote:Self-nominated candidates secure majority of seats in Moscow parliament:
https://tass.com/politics/1077218

Do we witness a new trend there, self-promoting by means of the social networks begins to work ... for better or worse?


The thing is this time candidates that would have been usually nominated by United Russia were self-nominated in Moscow. Only 1/3 of them were not associated with authorities one way or another. There's even a joke about it - "latent UR-member".
I see it as way to test if there's okay to ditch UR as a sole "ruling party".

UPD:
Here's the result
Ask Tamonten 1280px-Moscow_City_Duma_2019_after_100_percent_counting.svg
25 of 45 are from United Russia (despite being "self-nominated")
13 are from Communist party. 4 from "democratic" Yabloko. 3 from Just Russia, which is often seen as a UR's clone.
From these only "Yabloko" is outside a state "Crimean consensus" of 2014.


Last edited by Tamonten on Mon 9 Sep 2019 - 13:43; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Tamonten on Mon 9 Sep 2019 - 12:34

blue wizard from the east wrote:
Tamonten wrote:
blue wizard from the east wrote:You say, you have studied Mathematics and Oriental history in Russia. Have you ever heard of Anatoly Fomenko? If, what is your opinion about him?

In one word - "freak".
His theories are total nonsense, based on self-contradicting and pseudo-historical claims.
It's not even worth debating with - and was largely ignored by scientific society because of that. Was quite popular among not-so-educated people back in 90s, so some serious historians were eventually forced to take a look on it and disprove his allegations.

Being good specialist in some field does not automatically make you one in every other. Much like Sakharov was a brilliant physicist, but a total disaster of public figure.

lol So you really have heard about him.

Well, I like history, so I know most of existing theories. Of course I don't waste my time reading everything, but try to keep up to the general concepts.
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Post by Slovák on Mon 9 Sep 2019 - 14:18

Tamonten wrote:
Slovák wrote:Self-nominated candidates secure majority of seats in Moscow parliament:
https://tass.com/politics/1077218

Do we witness a new trend there, self-promoting by means of the social networks begins to work ... for better or worse?


The thing is this time candidates that would have been usually nominated by United Russia were self-nominated in Moscow. Only 1/3 of them were not associated with authorities one way or another. There's even a joke about it - "latent UR-member".
I see it as way to test if there's okay to ditch UR as a sole "ruling party".

UPD:
Here's the result
Ask Tamonten 1280px-Moscow_City_Duma_2019_after_100_percent_counting.svg
25 of 45 are from United Russia (despite being "self-nominated")
13 are from Communist party. 4 from "democratic" Yabloko. 3 from Just Russia, which is often seen as a UR's clone.
From these only "Yabloko" is outside a state "Crimean consensus" of 2014.

Thanks for your answer. Adding more info still coming in ...

Opposition wins 20 seats in 45-seat Moscow City Duma - all votes counted
Interfax

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Post by KneelB4Zod! on Sat 14 Sep 2019 - 20:27

Hello Tam,

can you please say sometheng regarding the latest Netanyahu's meeting with Putin?

There are quite conflicting news regarding the visit. Western msm claim mostly that Netanyahu basicly informed Russian MoD that Israel demands freedom of actions in Syria, invited Putin to Israel and, overall, corporate media depicts Bibi as someone, who mostly owned whole the meeting.

On other hand there are reports that Putin left Netanyahu waiting for almost 3 hours, reports about threats of downing Israeli jets appeared as well and whole the meeting is reported as big loss for Nutty.

So what's your understanding of all of that? And what is/was reported in Russian media?

_________________
"This is not a new world, it is simply an extension of what began in the old one. It has patterned itself after every dictator who has ever planted the ripping imprint of a boot on the pages of history since the beginning of time. It has refinements, technological advances, and a more sophisticated approach to the destruction of human freedom. But like every one of the super-states that preceded it, it has one iron rule: logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." - "The Obsolete Man" - The Twilight Zone, 1961

"I assure you, ladies and gentlemen that, very soon history will show that we and our allies have fought a war on behalf of the whole world against terrorism supported by governments that will be held accountable by its own people..."
Quoting Dostoyevsky:
"Rest assured, hell is big enough for all. It doesn't deserve this fierce competition over who will be the worst." - Dr. Bashar Jaafari, UNSC session, 22nd of February, 2018
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Post by Tamonten on Sun 15 Sep 2019 - 14:38

KneelB4Zod! wrote:Hello Tam,

can you please say sometheng regarding the latest Netanyahu's meeting with Putin?

There are quite conflicting news regarding the visit. Western msm claim mostly that Netanyahu basicly informed Russian MoD that Israel demands freedom of actions in Syria, invited Putin to Israel and, overall, corporate media depicts Bibi as someone, who mostly owned whole the meeting.

On other hand there are reports that Putin left Netanyahu waiting for almost 3 hours, reports about threats of downing Israeli jets appeared as well and whole the meeting is reported as big loss for Nutty.

So what's your understanding of all of that? And what is/was reported in Russian media?

Well, I can't say I was following it too closely.

But before I even try answer the question, I must say that I don't share the sentiment widespread here that Israel is inherently bad. It's a state, quite successful one with its own interests. And I believe Putin is standing on the same basis. Not to mention, that 1/5 of its population are former USSR citizens with of population up to 1/3 (depending on how to count) having some ties with Russia.
So yeah, official (and general) position here is that Israel has a right to do everything needed to ensure its safety. Including safety of ehose people.
Normally, if some hostile movements on the border are spotted, there's a diplomatic communication to prevent escalation, but since Syria is in a state of war with Israel (since the middle of 20th century) and there's no communication - and since even if it was not the case, Syrian government does not control Hezbollah, the only possible measure Israelites can take is preventive strikes.
Understanding this though does not change the fact that it undermines Russian efforts in the region. Hence the lengthy talks and a lot of half-assed decisions. "We play this, don't play this and with this piece fish was wrapped up" as we say.
Russia does not want any full-blown war. Nowhere really, but especially in the regions with a lot of Russians (in the broadest meaning of the word). And even more so does not want to be involved in any confrontation if it can be eluded. Messian complex of Soviet Union is long gone, we've learned our lesson.

If someone's claiming that stating existing status-quo is a victory... well, it does say something about influence Russia has in the region.

But mostly... no one wins or loses in such talks unless they are completely cancelled, dropped in the middle or completely botched by one side. You know who I am talking about, don't you?

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"But we are still alive." - "The Great Game" by Mikhail Leontyev (2007-2008)

"Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination." - Brandon Sanderson, "The Way of Kings"
"Russia is the great Christian country with rich Islamic history" - Vladimir Solovyov (Russian Jew)
Quos Iupiter perdere vult, dementat.
"Europe can wait while the Russian tsar fishes." - Alexander III The Peacemaker

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Post by KneelB4Zod! on Sun 15 Sep 2019 - 18:11

Tamonten wrote:
KneelB4Zod! wrote:Hello Tam,

can you please say sometheng regarding the latest Netanyahu's meeting with Putin?

There are quite conflicting news regarding the visit. Western msm claim mostly that Netanyahu basicly informed Russian MoD that Israel demands freedom of actions in Syria, invited Putin to Israel and, overall, corporate media depicts Bibi as someone, who mostly owned whole the meeting.

On other hand there are reports that Putin left Netanyahu waiting for almost 3 hours, reports about threats of downing Israeli jets appeared as well and whole the meeting is reported as big loss for Nutty.

So what's your understanding of all of that? And what is/was reported in Russian media?

Well, I can't say I was following it too closely.

But before I even try answer the question, I must say that I don't share the sentiment widespread here that Israel is inherently bad. It's a state, quite successful one with its own interests. And I believe Putin is standing on the same basis. Not to mention, that 1/5 of its population are former USSR citizens with of population up to 1/3 (depending on how to count) having some ties with Russia.
So yeah, official (and general) position here is that Israel has a right to do everything needed to ensure its safety. Including safety of ehose people.
Normally, if some hostile movements on the border are spotted, there's a diplomatic communication to prevent escalation, but since Syria is in a state of war with Israel (since the middle of 20th century) and there's no communication - and since even if it was not the case, Syrian government does not control Hezbollah, the only possible measure Israelites can take is preventive strikes.
Understanding this though does not change the fact that it undermines Russian efforts in the region. Hence the lengthy talks and a lot of half-assed decisions. "We play this, don't play this and with this piece fish was wrapped up" as we say.
Russia does not want any full-blown war. Nowhere really, but especially in the regions with a lot of Russians (in the broadest meaning of the word). And even more so does not want to be involved in any confrontation if it can be eluded. Messian complex of Soviet Union is long gone, we've learned our lesson.

If someone's claiming that stating existing status-quo is a victory... well, it does say something about influence Russia has in the region.

But mostly... no one wins or loses in such talks unless they are completely cancelled, dropped in the middle or completely botched by one side. You know who I am talking about, don't you?

Thanks for response. This was pretty much what I tought about the situation overall. I came to very similar end regarding Russian (un)willingness to spark possible large scalle military conflict because of Israeli agressions against Syria. On other hand, when Israel caused downing of Russian navy plane I really expected that Ben Gurion airport will be blown up in response. Then half-assed policy took place. Personally I think Russia (in meanings of its foreign policy) should understand that Israel, or its zionist regime to be more specific, is not a friend or partner. It's an enemy. And always was, regardless where the population came from (the most of Israeli PMs was from Poland, Ukraine and Baltics - either direct immigrants or their descendants).

Discussing Israeli legitimacy, its behavior and related tensions is a matter of another discussion I think.

_________________
"This is not a new world, it is simply an extension of what began in the old one. It has patterned itself after every dictator who has ever planted the ripping imprint of a boot on the pages of history since the beginning of time. It has refinements, technological advances, and a more sophisticated approach to the destruction of human freedom. But like every one of the super-states that preceded it, it has one iron rule: logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." - "The Obsolete Man" - The Twilight Zone, 1961

"I assure you, ladies and gentlemen that, very soon history will show that we and our allies have fought a war on behalf of the whole world against terrorism supported by governments that will be held accountable by its own people..."
Quoting Dostoyevsky:
"Rest assured, hell is big enough for all. It doesn't deserve this fierce competition over who will be the worst." - Dr. Bashar Jaafari, UNSC session, 22nd of February, 2018
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Post by Tamonten on Sun 15 Sep 2019 - 18:36

KneelB4Zod! wrote:
Tamonten wrote:
KneelB4Zod! wrote:Hello Tam,

can you please say sometheng regarding the latest Netanyahu's meeting with Putin?

There are quite conflicting news regarding the visit. Western msm claim mostly that Netanyahu basicly informed Russian MoD that Israel demands freedom of actions in Syria, invited Putin to Israel and, overall, corporate media depicts Bibi as someone, who mostly owned whole the meeting.

On other hand there are reports that Putin left Netanyahu waiting for almost 3 hours, reports about threats of downing Israeli jets appeared as well and whole the meeting is reported as big loss for Nutty.

So what's your understanding of all of that? And what is/was reported in Russian media?

Well, I can't say I was following it too closely.

But before I even try answer the question, I must say that I don't share the sentiment widespread here that Israel is inherently bad. It's a state, quite successful one with its own interests. And I believe Putin is standing on the same basis. Not to mention, that 1/5 of its population are former USSR citizens with of population up to 1/3 (depending on how to count) having some ties with Russia.
So yeah, official (and general) position here is that Israel has a right to do everything needed to ensure its safety. Including safety of ehose people.
Normally, if some hostile movements on the border are spotted, there's a diplomatic communication to prevent escalation, but since Syria is in a state of war with Israel (since the middle of 20th century) and there's no communication - and since even if it was not the case, Syrian government does not control Hezbollah, the only possible measure Israelites can take is preventive strikes.
Understanding this though does not change the fact that it undermines Russian efforts in the region. Hence the lengthy talks and a lot of half-assed decisions. "We play this, don't play this and with this piece fish was wrapped up" as we say.
Russia does not want any full-blown war. Nowhere really, but especially in the regions with a lot of Russians (in the broadest meaning of the word). And even more so does not want to be involved in any confrontation if it can be eluded. Messian complex of Soviet Union is long gone, we've learned our lesson.

If someone's claiming that stating existing status-quo is a victory... well, it does say something about influence Russia has in the region.

But mostly... no one wins or loses in such talks unless they are completely cancelled, dropped in the middle or completely botched by one side. You know who I am talking about, don't you?

Thanks for response. This was pretty much what I tought about the situation overall. I came to very similar end regarding Russian (un)willingness to spark possible large scalle military conflict because of Israeli agressions against Syria. On other hand, when Israel caused downing of Russian navy plane I really expected that Ben Gurion airport will be blown up in response. Then half-assed  policy took place. Personally I think Russia (in meanings of its foreign policy) should understand that Israel, or its zionist regime to be more specific, is not a friend or partner. It's an enemy. And always was, regardless where the population came from (the most of Israeli PMs was from Poland, Ukraine and Baltics - either direct immigrants or their descendants).

Discussing Israeli legitimacy, its behavior and related tensions is a matter of another discussion I think.

Even if someone wanted to start a war because of some downed jet or something, and there are some politicians and military who wanted, now Russia won't start a thing as long as its territory is not attacked directly. I assure you.
Because reasons. Global financial and economical crisis several times more severe than Great Depression is imminent - for several years at least. And the anglo-saxon West (whatever you, Saker or others say, for us enemy is there, even if some personals there are of Jewish origin) is all too eager proclaim Russia the reason, to find a convenient scapegoat to blame it to.
Another possible scapegoat is China. Hence Hong-Kong. They want to create some local conflict to instigate rapid changes on stock market. To masquerade real collapse's reasons with fake ones.

_________________
"When every one is dead the Great Game is finished. Not before." - Rudyard Kipling, "Kim" (1901)
"But we are still alive." - "The Great Game" by Mikhail Leontyev (2007-2008)

"Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination." - Brandon Sanderson, "The Way of Kings"
"Russia is the great Christian country with rich Islamic history" - Vladimir Solovyov (Russian Jew)
Quos Iupiter perdere vult, dementat.
"Europe can wait while the Russian tsar fishes." - Alexander III The Peacemaker

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Post by Böhse Tante on Sun 15 Sep 2019 - 19:13

"To masquerade real collapse's reasons with fake ones."

Haha, yes, good point. I have already thought about this possibility, but not in the case of HK yet. I think there are more "masks" ongoing and perhaps on their way.

Cool

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